What should I do with my lineup if one of my top-eight players
(for instance, my #2 player) fails
to show up for the match?
"no show" is a player that has failed to make it known,
in advance of his tee time, that he will be late. When a player
fails to show up, that player gets scratched, and the next guy/gal
moves up a position. The team ladder (rankings) MUST
remain intact. No stacking. In this example, the #3 players moves
up to the # 2 spot in place of the "no show" player.
The #4 moves up to #3 position, and so forth. In this way, the
ladder remains intact.
#4: But what if that player
calls me on my cell phone and says he's lost, and will be 20 minutes
this case, the player has
given advance notice (prior to his tee time) that he will be late.
Since you know
this player will arrive eventually, there are 2 options available,
at the discretion of the Home coach.
Home coach can send the teams off in the correct order (#1 &
#2 vs. # 1 & #2; #3 & #4 vs. #3 & #4, etc.), as if
all players are present. That means that the first scoring team
goes off without one of its opponents. They continue to play each
hole until all points are decided. If the late player arrives
before the match is decided (usually by the 15th hole), he can
join the match in progress and play the remaining holes.
Home coach has discretion to delay that
match and send the next match out, while waiting for the player
to show up. In other words, since the #2 will be 20 minutes late,
the home coach can send out the #3&4 vs. #3&4 match first,
and if necessary, then the #5&6 vs. #5&6 match, before
sending out the #1&2 match. This has to be the Home coach's
call, because he has to deal with the membership as to why the
first tee is being tied up.
SPOT ON THE LINEUP?
#5: As an additional
option, if a team's #2 (as an example) fails to show, can that
team forfeit that player's match? A team might want to do this
when they believe the lower pairings work in their favor, by losing
3 points at the start, but making it back on the lower part of
If a player fails to show up, he gets scratched (he is no longer
able to compete for points in that match - although he is allowed
to play the course in a non-scoring position), and the next guys/gals
all move up a notch on the ladder.
ELIGIBILITY FOR PLAYOFFS
6 : I
have a question regarding eligibility for playoff matches. Does
either practice matches or 1st round/2nd round of playoffs count
as one of the three matches a player must play in order to be
eligible for post-season play?
three matches can either be league or practice and includes scoring
and non scoring players. A minimum of three matches need to be
played before eligibility is optained for the playoffs. The bylaws (Rule 3 Eligibility 2.e.3.) try to cover this. The playoff matches
don't count towards this three match requirement since players
are already deemed ineligible to play. Could a junior play in
the non-scoring field of a playoff match and earn one of the three
matches needed for a possible future playoff match? No, this
would not gain eligibility for a possible second playoff match. The
intent of the bylaw was to keep players out of the playoffs that
had not previously played three matches during the reagular season compitition. Exceptions
may be granted on a case by case basis, if a special cercumstance
exists, such as: 1) Forfieted matches during season by another
team, which gave players less chances to get three matches in. 2)
Injury to the player during the season. 3) How many matches did
the player play in last year? 4) Is player an offspring of proprietary
member? 5) Is the player among your best 3-4 players?.
THE FOUR"NON MEMBER" LIMIT
needed to play more than four"non-member" kids on the
scoring team in order to fill the eight scoring positions. Is
this a problem?
it is a problem. The League voted in 2006
to limit the scoring team to a maximum of four "other"
[non-member] players. The membership also voted to give the League
the discretion to allow exemptions to any club unable to attract
a sufficient number of "member" kids. However, the exemption
must be granted BEFORE
the match, not at
So, if more than 4 "non-members" are on the scoring
team, those non-member scores in excess of 4 are NOT counted in
either the individual match or team best ball. It is, in effect,
a forfeit of that player's match and of those points. [This rule
should be encouragement to teams to use member kids, even if they
shoot in the high 100's - - - as you never know when they might
get lucky and ace or birdie a par three and help the team's best
OPTION TO WAIVE RULE
a coach, don't I have the discretion to allow my opposition to
play more than five non-members to compete on the scoring team
against my team? This is just for fun, anyway. And, my team is
not going to make the play-offs anyway.
You can't agree to waive the rules. Let's make it fun by sticking
with the rules. Our rules are designed to make the competition
both fun and fair. If the rule make no sense, then request
the Competition Committee to change the rule. But in this case,
more is at stake than just your match. The "points-per-match"
averages are used to determine playoff positions, home fields,
and to break ties. If everyone plays by the same rules, then the
process for making it into the play-offs remains fair and credible.
I limited in the number of players I can have on my team?
Team size is not an issue. What may be an issue is: (1)
whether you have a large enough team to weather (a) vacations,
(b) school schedules, (c) AJGA, USGA, NCGA schedule conflicts,
and (d) all the other fun things available for kids to do on Saturdays
in the Bay Area, or: (2) you have too large a team so that
when you reach the play-offs, you have trouble complying with
the rule requiring each scoring player to have competed in at
least three matches during the season. You need to strike a balance
that you feel comfortable with and that you can handle as a coach.
COMPETED FOR ANOTHER TEAM
#10: Can I use players
who competed for some other team last year?
We encourage play, not restrictions. Last year we had some clubs
drop from the League. The players on those clubs deserve a place
to play. If you can, and if your club permits, try to find a spot
on your team for some of those players. We have the best junior
league in the country, so let the kids play, if you can. Remember,
however, that once a player competes on one team, he cannot play
for another team in the same season. If you have space on your
team for a few more players,
contact the pro shops at non-participating Clubs to see if they
know of any juniors looking to play.
ELIGIBILITY MUST BE DECIDED BEFORE MATCH
of us coaches could remember what the rules were regarding line-ups
and elegibility, so we agreed to work out the scoring issues sometime
after the match. Is that OK?
issues regarding the make-up of the scoring teams, rankings (ladder),
and eligibility should be decided before the first group goes
off the first tee. Never,
never agree to work it out later, when
the matches are over. It is demoralizing for the kids to later
find out they actually "lost," when earlier they played their
heart out and thought they had really won. In other words, coaches,
do your job beforehand so the kids can go out and do theirs and
have fun without worrying about the administrative issues that
we deal with. NEVER EVER argue or make a scene with your
opposing coach, especially in front of any of the junior players.
If you have a disagreement, try to disagree in a gentlemanly manner.
Get a ruling from the Head Professional, or if it's a Bay Cities
rule, call and get a ruling from one of the Committeepersons listed
below. But you set the example that your kids will follow. Make
it a good one. 10 years from now, no one will remember the outcome
of your match, but they will remember how you reacted to and handled
a conflict situation.
THE LADDER TO PERMITS FRIENDS TO PLAY
number 3 player and their number 7 player are best friends and
have waited all their lives to get the chance to play each other,
head to head, el nino v. el nino. I talked with the other coach,
and she is agreeable to changing their ladder so they can play
each other. Is that OK?
NO, NO. You must protect the integrity of the ladder. If they
want to play each other, then invite them back on Sunday and let
them go at it. Who knows, they might make new life-long friendships
with their "real" pairings.
POOR ETIQUETTE AND VERBAL OUTBURST
What kind of behavior warrants a loss of hole or loss of match
have asked for guidelines. What follows are my own views, not
necessarily shared by the competition committee, but which I
believe are compatible with the League's philosophy.
This decision is
left for each coach to handle on an "as needed" basis.
The League is not in a position to police "behavior"
in non-playoff matches, but relies upon the sportsmanship and
common-sense of its coaches and players to maintain the proper
amount of dignity and decorum during the game. As coach, there
is a fine line between being "officious" versus rightfully
"concerned," and each coach needs to be in tune with
their own team's, and Home Club's, situation. Obviously, winning
is more fun than losing, but it should always be the players
who decide the outcome, and not the coaches. Wally Goodwin,
(Stanford coach, retired) reminded us that he never had to play
a shot, swing a club, or make a putt during all of the years
he coached. He simply let the players play, while he administered
(working feverishly) behind the scenes so they could.
As a guideline, the Host Coach
has an obligation to make clear to all the players, before the
match starts, what the local rules and conditions of play will
be. While this usually means going over the local rules for
play, course conditions, etc., there is no reason the Host coach
should not remind the players of the general rules of good,
proper etiquette and conduct, and what may happen if there is
a breach of those rules. The coaching guideline, here, is that
these are still juniors who are not always going to behave as
adults, or as expected by adult standards. Our League understands
that, and tries to help kids through these difficulties without
making our golf league just another authority figure controlling
them. In that respect, giving them clear boundaries and expectations,
as well as guidance, is going to be more important in their
development than punishment will be, in the absence of such
In the present case, on the first
tee with all players present, coaches might want to review the
discipline rules contained in the League's bylaws, those expected
by the Host Club, the NCGA/USGA, and advise their junior golfers
that a progressive discipline approach will be utilized; i.e.,
first a warning, then loss of the hole, then loss of match,
or loss of side. My experience is that once the players know
what the rules are, and what is expected, they will follow them.
While a breach of a "rule
of golf" has definite and immediate consequences in a match,
and is called by a player on himself, a breach of "etiquette"
is a more difficult issue to deal with. It often reflects on
the personality of the recipient of the discourtesy as much
as it does on the issuer. What is considered as acceptable levels
of "outbursts" seems to be changing, a la Tiger Woods
uttering profanities on TV after a bad shot before millions
of hero-worshippers, without any [immediate] sanctions. After
attending several matches this year with different clubs around
the League, profanity, coming as outbursts, has been heard from
players on all of those teams. It is not what I want, nor what
the League condones, it is just simply a fact that it is a common,
albeit distasteful, occurrence, not confined to any one junior
golfer or any one junior golf team. Each coach needs to handle
his/her team in a manner that promotes good behavior, and discourages
poor. This is never going to be an easy, or simple, task, as
each kid is unique and will respond differently than will others.
The League's concern is that appropriate action be taken by
the player's team coach, and/or home club, before it becomes
an issue that requires League intervention. It is in this fashion
that "non-match," or internal, discipline becomes
important in modifying poor behavior patterns in the future.
Sometimes a player must be told he is not playing in the next
match. I know that many League coaches have utilized this approach
very successfully in the past, even where it meant that they
did not field their strongest team at their next match as a
result of such discipline.
It is extremely important that
any discipline that might effect the outcome of a match be administered
immediately and concurrently with the breach. It is unacceptable,
in most cases, to later impose a penalty upon a match for a
breach that should have been handled immediately at the time
it occurred. To delay would be akin to an umpire ruling, after
the game, that a player should have been thrown out of the game
before he hit the game winning home run.
The opposing coach should be consulted
and informed at the same time so that there is agreement in
the proposed discipline. This is why the coaches play together,
and usually go out in the middle of the scoring teams - so they
can be available and can witness their players actions. If you
and the other coach cannot agree on what should be done, then
proceed on with match, noting where the problem occurred, and
the penalty proposed, and bring the issue to the attention of
the League's Competition Committee afterwards.
A continuing pattern of inappropriate
conduct should be handled by that player's coach. If the League
becomes aware of a continuing problem with a player, or even
with a coach, the Competition Committee can always request that
the player be excluded from the team's roster, or that the coach
be suspended, or the team not be re-invited back into the League
the following year. That has never happened, to my knowledge.
14 . ADDING
PLAYERS TO THE ROSTER
Does the league allow for adding players during the season,
after the June 1 team rosters have been submitted to the League?
If a team wants to play a "non-roster" player, how
should this have been handled? Would a match be legal with a
non-roster player competing? The League's bylaws are not that
specific and I would like to know what is correct and consistent
with what other teams would have done.
issue of a player playing for a team when he was not listed
on their June 1 roster does not appear to be a League "discipline"
matter. The rule requiring a June 1 roster submission has no
provision for sanctions to be imposed for non-compliance, much
less where there has been initial compliance, but with additional
names supplied afterwards. The June 1st roster requirement in
the bylaws appears to be directed to "non-member"
kids, only. So for "member" kids, a late add should
be no problem. If the team is not playoff bound, then building
for next year is a proper motive for adding member players,
and perhaps even non-members. If you have had difficulty getting
even eight kids to show up for matches, that would be another
good reason to add players late (if you have been playing with
less than eight players, you probably are out of the playoffs,
almost by definition). But let's say you are going to be in
the playoffs, and have had a full team show up each week. Adding
a player late means that they will not be eligible for post
season championship play. So why do it? The kids that have worked
so hard and shown up for all the practices and matches, have
paid their dues, and they deserve the opportunity to continue
to play in the scoring eight, or move up into the eight, at
least over someone showing up late in the season. Perhaps you
need a good player to be added in order to be sure you make
the playoffs? If that is the case, maybe you, the coach, need
to look hard at what this means, and whether that is the message
you are comfortable conveying to your team (i.e., that they
aren't good enough to win on their own, or that winning is everything).
Will that player's absence from lineup during the finals mean
you won't advance in the playoffs? Bottom line, you as the coach
have to decide what is important for you and your team.
2002, only 10 teams submitted their rosters to the League by
June 1. For 2003, every team met the deadline. 2008 was almost as good. When a
team adds a player during the season, there may be good reason
to do so. If it is a member's kid, that suffices. If a team
has trouble filling the 8 scoring spots, that is probably a
good reason. Is the team doing so just to try "stacking"
the line up with newly added player(s). Is the team simply trying
to live up to the League's spirit and philosophy, which is to
permit juniors to play, not to exclude them. In fact, for 2002
and 2003, other teams were encouraged to bring in players from
the defunct teams of non-participating Clubs. These additions,
for the most part, came after the roster submission date.
As noted above,
"eligibility" issues should be resolved [well] before
the match, primarily by the coaches communicating with one another
in advance of the Saturday match, as is required by the bylaws.
(That is why at the Spring Tournament, coaches were paired with
the coaches from the team they were to play for their first
practice match - - - to open lines of communication). Eligibility
should never be the subject of dispute in front of the kids,
who should remain completely unaware of these administrative
Once the match starts, eligibility
(with rare exception) is waived or acquiesced to. The "new"
player should be placed in the "ladder" according
to his scoring potential. Such additions to the roster would
not invalidate a regular season match. True, however, that such
additions may be excludable from the post-season and Championship
matches if they have not "participated" in at least
three matches during the season. This rule is designed to prevent
coaches from recruiting new, scratch, players for a "guaranteed"
win during the championship season.
So if you
have eligibility issues, get them resolved before the match,
preferably before the day of the match.
16. Some More Tips for the Season Matches
- Don't play or list on your rosters any high school golfers until their school matches/post-season are over. (they could lose their HS eligibility).
- Keep a record of all scores of each of your players, even when they are not on the scoring team (as they must be present in at least 3 matches to compete in the post-season playoffs).
- Be sure to submit your score sheet to the League. (Use file naming protocol: Team Score v. Team Score on Date)
- Be sure you have your golf course and tee times reserved and you use the same tees throughout the season..
- Confirm with the other coach that s/he has a team ready to play and will show up (too many times matches get canceled at the last minute because kids don't commit).
- Keep your team's ladder (player ranking) current and share it with the opposing team coach.
should print out a hard copy [from our website: www.baycitiesgolf.com]
of the rules and bylaws and
have them with you for each match. The rules require coaches to
make contact with their opposing coach during the week before
the match to discuss and decide any issues, local rules, or procedures
that might present themselves. You should keep with you the names
and phone numbers (cell phones) of the competition committee and
the League President. If a questions can't be resolved by reference
to the rules,or by the Head Professional, then call someone on
the committee and get a ruling on the spot.
Competition Committee Teams: The Coaches from these 4 teams make up the committee
Roundhill, Olympic, Meadow Club, Saratoga. The VP, Mike Miller of Olympic Club heads the committee.
Jeff Maxiopolis of Castlewood- League President -